Bitching about the blues crowd

[Rugby Nick]

Just wrote this... what do you guys think and tell me

a) where I am wrong (I am far from expert here) and
b) what needs to be done in a follow up

Cheers

http://welshrugbyblog.co.uk/2009/whe...ardiff-crowds/

This could be written about almost any of our regions, but with recent changes I think that the Cardiff Blues highlight this the most…

Did you know that over 20,000 turned up to watch the Ospreys yesterday? The problem? It was in Italy, not Wales. That’s right, the Italians get (a reported) 20,543 to watch Viadana vs the Ospreys. Even at £5 a ticket do you think the Ospreys will get close to that?

But more worrying is what is going on down at the rubbishly named Cardiff City Stadium. There was a reported 14k there for the biggest game of Cardiff’s season so far (and a game that really makes their season worth playing on in)… but most who were there question that.leckwith

You see the reported figures have been poor at Cardiff recently, they couldn’t manage 20k to the Australia game, one the Ospreys sold out to ahead of the game a couple of years ago. And that is reported, most people who go along to these games regularly say how it doesn’t look that many. The reported figure, it seems, always includes season ticketers who didn’t turn up, which gives a nice boost.

So where are they?

The Cardiff Blues are paying through the nose for rent at Cardiff City Stadium, but aren’t getting the crowds to back it up. But they should – they had 27k to a pool game just last year, in the Millenium Stadium. The lack of atmosphere means that any game is dead anyway, even if we get told there are 8k there, or whatever.

That rent means they must be operating at a loss, a big loss – suggestion is that rent comes in at roughly £60k a game. Add wages, costs for policing etc on top and think about how much money a ‘home game’ is going to cost, not make.

Cardiff Arms Park got crowds in, has a center of town location, had atmosphere and earned big profits for the region. Yes a higher capacity was needed – but couldnt the MS be used, or take one off games to the new stadium?

The crowds are down, the money is down and the costs up, isn’t it time for the Blues management to say ‘we made a mistake’?

It seems not, but the suggestion is that it is not for rugby reasons but for the hope that the lease (a 14 year one apparently) the Cardiff Blues have at CAP will be bought off, giving a massive pay out that will allow loans given by prominent figures to be paid off. I don’t know the full facts on that but it does seem that the Blues board are less than keen for the fans to know the full information in the background.

I hope they prove me wrong, come out and show why this is a good move in terms of figures and for the region as a whole. But I don’t see it, I really, really don’t. As far as i am concerned it is time for Cardiff to get back to their spiritual home. No wonder a lot of the die hards are staying away, it is hard to blame them.

fed up of the press not really covering leaving cap

[hwntw]

Careful, the Pieman won't like that if he gets wind of it.

[Sandydragon]

If you have abig stadium, you need to fill it. A small stadium of say 5K supports when fill has an atmosphere. 8K supporters that just about halffill a stadium and there is no atmosphere.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation to be fair, but I dont see why they couldnt have used the Mil Stad for the bigger games. Would there really have been a problem with that?

[Rugby Nick]

Originally Posted by Sandydragon

If you have abig stadium, you need to fill it. A small stadium of say 5K supports when fill has an atmosphere. 8K supporters that just about halffill a stadium and there is no atmosphere.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation to be fair, but I dont see why they couldnt have used the Mil Stad for the bigger games. Would there really have been a problem with that?

eggfekkinxactly

[hwntw]

Originally Posted by Sandydragon

If you have abig stadium, you need to fill it. A small stadium of say 5K supports when fill has an atmosphere. 8K supporters that just about halffill a stadium and there is no atmosphere.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation to be fair, but I dont see why they couldnt have used the Mil Stad for the bigger games. Would there really have been a problem with that?

This was the entire argument of the old guard, that some people wanted better toilets though, the money a 20 year agreement will cost would have been enough to refurbish CAP into one of the best club grounds in the world.

[Rayerker]

Reasonable article but one sided.

Ever heard of self fulfilling propechy? Well the fans who say 'it wont work' and then stay away are doing exactly that as when the move fails due to low numbers they can say 'told you'.

I didn't want to move, I wasn't convinced by the plans or the finances, I loved CAP but move I did because their MY team. You watch your team where ever they play.

most Fans are fickle and the main reason that fans have stayed away is because we've been crap. It really is as simple as that. It started once we got knocked out of the HC last season. We attracted bumper crowds to the last couple of games at the Arms Park and were battered while playing a second string. performances this season have mirrored those two and people are not blind.
Poor performances give people a reason to not go and they then look to add reasons to justify it like high prices, car parking, rubbish roof etc.
If we were playing well we would have attracted 15,000 quite often (all though not for LV cup). We havent played well and second strings have been playing.
The australia 'a' comments made me laugh as that was Cardiff 'a' too and in fact 'b' in some positions.

[Sandydragon]

Originally Posted by hwntw

This was the entire argument of the old guard, that some people wanted better toilets though, the money a 20 year agreement will cost would have been enough to refurbish CAP into one of the best club grounds in the world.

I admit to not having been to CAP for a few years, but it wasnt that bad a place last time I was there. Ive been to far worse.

It would be nice to have more large stadiums in wales, but ground sharign seems a rediculously expensive way of doing it.

[Rayerker]

Originally Posted by hwntw

This was the entire argument of the old guard, that some people wanted better toilets though, the money a 20 year agreement will cost would have been enough to refurbish CAP into one of the best club grounds in the world.

But we know there was no desire within the board to do that.

from a different perspective though; is it unfair of Peter Thomas to expect his loans back? Should we expect a benefactor to keep putting his hands in his pocket? He's the only original benefactor still in Wales and has spent a shed full of money over the years. I remember that first season when it appeared every young welsh player was being signed by Thomas - Gwyn Jones, Leigh davies, Gareth thomas et al.

[Rugby Nick]

Originally Posted by Rayerker

Reasonable article but one sided.

Ever heard of self fulfilling propechy? Well the fans who say 'it wont work' and then stay away are doing exactly that as when the move fails due to low numbers they can say 'told you'.

I didn't want to move, I wasn't convinced by the plans or the finances, I loved CAP but move I did because their MY team. You watch your team where ever they play.

most Fans are fickle and the main reason that fans have stayed away is because we've been crap. It really is as simple as that. It started once we got knocked out of the HC last season. We attracted bumper crowds to the last couple of games at the Arms Park and were battered while playing a second string. performances this season have mirrored those two and people are not blind.
Poor performances give people a reason to not go and they then look to add reasons to justify it like high prices, car parking, rubbish roof etc.
If we were playing well we would have attracted 15,000 quite often (all though not for LV cup). We havent played well and second strings have been playing.
The australia 'a' comments made me laugh as that was Cardiff 'a' too and in fact 'b' in some positions.

it is a tad one sided, as i said am planning to follow it up after a bit more fact finding, will look at other pov's then

[Sandydragon]

All teams need to make progress, and that includes the clubs infrastructure.

However, if the new site is more difficult ot get too, or the prices are more expensive, or the fans feel that the decision isnt being taken in the best interets of the club then it will backfire.

Theres talk of a new Stadium for Newport (been talked about for ferking ages mind). If it does go ahead, I hope they will take note of the attachment many have to RP and not make it somewhere where your stuffed getting to without a car. The RP is within staggering distance of the city centre and is well served by bus routes. Who the hell wants to drive to a rugby match and then drink lemonade?